On Quake Weapons:

A little bit about the different weapons available in stock quake.  not really that interesting, just a poorly formatted post where i talk about the q1 guns a bit.

Axe

Ammo Type N/A
Rate of Attack 2/second
Attack Period 0.5 seconds
Ammo Consumption / Shot N/A
Ammo Consumption / Second N/A
Damage / Attack 20
Damage / Second 40

Shotgun

 

Ammo Type Shells
Rate of Attack 2/second
Attack Period 0.5 seconds
Ammo Consumption / Shot 1 Shell
Ammo Consumption / Second 2 Shells
Damage / Attack 24
Damage / Second 48

Super Shotgun

 

Ammo Type Shells
Rate of Attack 1.43/second
Attack Period 0.7 seconds
Ammo Consumption / Shot 2 Shells
Ammo Consumption / Second 2.86 Shells
Damage / Attack 56
Damage / Second 80

Nailgun

 

Ammo Type Nails
Rate of Attack 10/second
Attack Period 0.1 seconds
Ammo Consumption / Shot 1 Nail
Ammo Consumption / Second 10 Nails
Damage / Attack 9
Damage / Second 90

Super Nailgun

 

Ammo Type Nails
Rate of Attack 10/second
Attack Period 0.1 seconds
Ammo Consumption / Shot 2 Nails
Ammo Consumption / Second 20 Nails
Damage / Attack 18
Damage / Second 180

Grenade Launcher

 

Ammo Type Rockets
Rate of Attack 1.67/second
Attack Period 0.6 seconds
Ammo Consumption / Shot 1 Rocket
Ammo Consumption / Second 1.67 Rockets
Damage / Attack 100 – 120
Damage / Second 167 – 200

Rocket Launcher

 

Ammo Type Rockets
Rate of Attack 1.25/second
Attack Period 0.8 seconds
Ammo Consumption / Shot 1 Rocket
Ammo Consumption / Second 1.25 Rockets
Damage / Attack 100 – 120
Damage / Second 125 – 150

Lightning Gun

 

Ammo Type Cells
Rate of Attack 10/second
Attack Period 0.1 seconds
Ammo Consumption / Shot 1 Cell
Ammo Consumption / Second 10 Cells
Damage / Attack 30
Damage / Second 300

we can pull some interesting information from these stats:

 

the SG is exactly half as powerful as the SSG.  that actually surprised me at first glance, as i always felt the SSG had an edge on the SG.  obviously, if we’re talking pure burst potential, then yes, the SSG edges out, but over a sustained fight (and assuming close range), the SSG is only twice as powerful.

edit:  the above was incorrect, apparently because i can’t count. 9_9

the SSG deals 28 damage per shell, vs the SG’s 24 damage per shell, giving it more efficiency.  Note that to the Doom2 SSG, which is nearly 3x more as powerful as the Doom2 SG has a more noticeable difference in efficiency.

even with the correction above, however, if you are looking purely at ammo balance, then the Quake shotguns are easier to account for.  quake’s shotguns only differ a small amount in ammo consumption vs damage whereas in Doom, a player favouring the SSG might start to accrue excess ammo over SG players.

obviously, different weapons are different and the Doom SSG pays for it’s ammo efficiency with an even wider spread than Quake’s SSG making it very situational.

for pure damage potential, aside from the LG, the SNG is the highest dps weapon available, topping even the GL and RL.  It’s fast projectile speed and 100% accuracy making it pretty much the go-to weapon for nearly any situation, ammo permitting.

lately, i’ve felt that the SNG could fully replace the NG when picked up.  They accomplish the exact same role and neither has different damage/ammo rates.  The NG deals 9 damage per nail, the SNG deals 9 damage per nail.  Only the SNG does it faster.  There is absolutely no reason to use the NG after picking up the SNG because the only thing that happens is you kill slower, which is never desirable.  the only possible reason i can imagine is you have trouble aiming; missed shots would cost less ammo.

the LG, of course, is absolutely ridiculous at 300 dps.  Shamblers have 600 hp:  it would take a whole 2 seconds to down one.

i do like that iD included a room clearing weapon without making it stupidly overpowered like Doom’s BFG.  i just wish that it had more utility to it rather than just sheer damage output.

if the lightning bolt was able to pass through enemies to deal damage to the ones behind it, it would make the weapon more of a strategic choice.  you could still use it on high hp monsters like shamblers and vores, but if you saw a group of knights or hknights, it would be a viable tactic to try to line them up for a good lightning blast.  even if successive lightning hits reduced damage by 50% or something such that: first target: 30 damage, second target 15 damage, third target 7 damage, fourth target 0 damage it would still be quite useful.

the LG->water discharge is an interesting mechanic, of course, but one that’s never exploited.  i suspect it’s because of the binary nature of the mechanic:  you either don’t discharge into water and live or you do and flat out die (the sole exception is if you have a very small amount of cells, but then it doesn’t matter because the explosive damage is negligeable anyway).  even if the player has the pentagram, you still loose all of your cells which is a sacrifice that is hard to justify:  there’s no guarantee that the discharge explosion will kill all targets as they have to not only be near enough but in LOS of you.

if the LG water discharge instead only consumed 15-30 cells, created an explosion about the power of a rocket centered on you BUT only dealt ~30-50 damage to you, it might be a choice the player is willing to make.  the damage wouldn’t outright kill you, but it’s not something you’d want to try without armor.

also notable is that the GL has an edge in damage, assuming you hit the target 100% of the time.  the only problem with the GL is that it deals damage differently (and in a less reliable way) than the RL.

the RL first applies random damage between 100 to 120 to the target that is hit and then creates explosive damage while ignoring the first target.

the GL simply creates an explosion around the grenade, irregardless of the target it hits (assuming it did).  what this means is that larger monsters like ogres and shamblers (ignoring shambler 50% damage reduction on explosives) may receive less than 100 minimum damage, even if they are direct hits.  this actually created a bug with quoth’s vermis and grenades.  because the vermis’ bounding box is so large, it was possible for grenades to hit it in such a way as to not deal any damage at all.  this probably made vermis combat a lot harder depending on how you aimed.

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3 Comments (+add yours?)

  1. LA
    Oct 17, 2010 @ 20:05:19

    There are some slight inaccuracies in your summary of the shotguns. DPA-wise, they are at a 2.33 ratio, but this is balanced by a DPS ratio of only 1.67 and the SG having a much tighter spread. Compare that to Doom (2.86 DPA ratio) and Quake 2 (2.5). I don’t remember the timings of the weapons in those games, though.

    There have been ideas to make the nailguns distinct, so that it’s meaningful to have both at once. RMQ gives the SNG nails penetration, at the expense of now having soread. OUM made the nails ricochet.

    There are ways of fixing the GL/vermis bug. The easiest probably being doing specific damage to a certain target. DPMod (and Quake 3) calculate splash damage to the edge of the bounding box, instead of the origin, which makes them easier to deal damage with, but that does increase their power level significantly, which they probably don’t need.

    The LG penetrating could be an interesting idea as well, but I think then it would need a slight nerf. Interesting thougts on the “tactical nuke” idea. One that’s worth exploring.

    Reply

  2. necros
    Oct 23, 2010 @ 18:02:28

    good lord! you are, of course, completely right. what makes it even stupider of me is that i HAVE the correct numbers in the tables, and then somehow came to believe 2 * 24 = 56? o_O

    the SSG causes 28 damage per shell and so, does have an edge over the SG in efficiency, just like the doom SSG does, although smaller.

    my gut reaction in this case (that the SSG was more powerful per ammo than the SG) was completely right, and that explains why i was surprised i guess. :P

    thanks for bringing that to my attention! ^_^

    and yeah, concerning the GL dealing damage, i’ve since just converted it to the same type of code as the missile for my own mod. mostly i’m just annoyed i never noticed that before when coding quoth and especially when coding the vermis combat– notably because kell and i specifically wanted the GL to be a viable weapon to use against it. live and learn, i guess.

    Reply

  3. kneedeepinthedoomed
    Nov 15, 2010 @ 06:14:42

    >lately, i’ve felt that the SNG could fully replace the NG when picked up.

    The normal NG is highly prized in RMQ since both the shotgun and supernailgun no longer have that long range accuracy.

    The SNG turned into a close to medium range horde control weapon with pretty high spread as a balance for its enormous throughput and damage. It’s the gun that turns 400 knights into mincemeat if pointed in their general direction, but it won’t hit much at a distance.

    The shotgun is no longer competing in the accuracy class. Both shotguns are now close range damage dealers, the normal shotgun with a medium rate of fire and acceptable spread, the double barrel purely for humungous damage output at an equivalent cost in ROF and spread.

    Reply

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